LJ92-01490A repair question again

Question: 
 Dear Coppell TV Repair,

Just a question.
I have one of these sustain boards LJ92-01490A which was shorted.when I got the tv.
Both buffers were also shorted.
I bought a y sustain kit which consisted of all the transistors and diodes and three mosfets.
The tv would now turn on and stay on with no buffers attached.
Had all the right voltages.
I bought a used buffer on eBay and turned on the set and it immediately blew on of the buffer chips.
I have ordered two buffers and I guess my question is will the sustain if its on and working blow a buffer board or did I just get a ready to blow buffer.
My intentions are to send you all three boards to check but of course I would rather save the money.
I really am relying on your trustworthiness to tell me if a working sustain can blow a buffer board.
Thanks Gary

Answer:
OK, if you rely on our trustworthiness then read this carefully a few times because it may be somewhat confusing, but that's unfortunately how it is...it is complex.

1) A perfectly working YSUS board LJ92-01490A *can* and is known to sometimes damage perfectly working buffers.
In order for that to happen it will have to be fed improper signals by the plasma display controller.
A perfectly good YSUS, when fed proper signals, won't damage buffers, of course.
And of course the same is more or less valid for other plasma TV sets, but we've seen it happen with this one a bit more often than with others.


2) An improperly repaired YSUS LJ92-01490A *can* kill perfectly good buffers, even when fed proper signals from the plasma controller.

Knowing this particular board very well and knowing the SJ repair kit contents I am keen on making a statistically educated guess that some 20% to 30% of their customers for the kit would have an issue similar to yours. 



They just lack components in that kit that do tend to fail and when they do and don't get replaced they do cause exactly what you describe.

Of course there's no way for me to tell whether this is your case or if you have a bad plasma display controller or if you have yet another problem.

But I'll get to the question of what those components are a little further down.

3) I do not have an easy check for you on how you can test the plasma controller; it fails relatively rarely, but when it does it can very quickly turn a repair job into a financial cliff. I know that first hand.
So whenever I have the slightest doubt that it may be behind failures I tell customers - and would have told you if you've send us such boards - to have it replaced.
I have doubts based on the condition of the YSUS board when I first see it and the failures on it; in your case I can't do that, but if indeed BOTH buffer boards have failed I'd rather go for it.

4) While you can send all 3 boards you must be aware that we will not take them under our eBay listing as the YSUS has been worked on.

We'd only take it directly and we'd still offer no warranty. Only a video of it working in a set.

5) In the hundreds - yes, hundreds! - of LJ92-01490A boards we've serviced we've established that often times the problem is NOT on the board itself, but in how it was serviced before us.
There are several common mistakes people do when attempting to service that board and while I won't list here all of them for reasons I'll discuss in a minute I'll mention that one common problem is that people often tear the copper connection linking the top and bottom tracks on the board when they pull out the Vg filter capacitor (680 uF/25V or 35V -forgot which one) located near the power connector.

That leads to a board producing no image, which is not your problem, but illustrates my point.

In conclusion I'd like to say a few things.

First, no offense to SJ, but it is my opinion that a lot of their kits are simply sucked out of their fingers or, more likely, copied from other places. They are NOT based on first hand experience.
Of course that also allows them to have much more kits than companies like us who actually only release repair kits based on first hand experience.
Business-wise they are the smart people and we are the stupid ones.

Second, the above is also the explanation on why we do not want to disclose everything we know about repairing boards.

I personally stay late at night to reverse engineer, experiment, kill, repair and kill again a board before figuring out why it doesn't work the way it should.

I do not feel it fair - or reasonable - to post all of my findings only so companies like SJ or any coastal part distribution company can assemble a repair kit and start selling at a lower cost.

The value of what we do is in the knowledge we produce and the way we produce it - through hard work.

Of course, often times it gets out there, one way or another; but you'd be surprised how often it gets there incorrectly or partially (like with their repair kit).

Third, some issues are just too complicated to explain and fall under too many different cases to bother creating different repair kits and explaining which is for what; especially in the light of the risk of someone just copying the explanation and underpricing you.
Yet another argument is that a one-size-fits-all repair kit like the one SJ offers (for this case) is inefficient price-wise.
Their kit contains parts that you usually do not need, like the RJH3047 MOSFETs, which rarely fail, but it lacks other parts which you MUST replace when they fail.
Yet it contains 4 pieces 88N30W (or 88N30P), which you rarely ever need since they fail as a result of overload and it is worth to replace just the one or two that failed and not all four.


A universal repair kit would be highly expensive and highly inefficient, even when properly done. By "properly" I mean covering some 95% of all cases.

It would require reading and understanding and for those who manage to get through it the kit alone would become useless as they'd know which parts they need for what cases.

SJ apparently doesn't think so and , business-wise, they may be right and I may be wrong.

But that's how I am and that is how this company is run.

adsoft68's issues with capacitors, honesty and his own abilities

Synopsis: This article is our right of rebuttal and presentation of our view in the case of our eBay customer A. S. (full name preserved in accordance with US privacy laws) who left us a feedback stating

"Fake repair kit, thats are just capacitor the seller are not honest."

We present this in hope our  prospect customers would have the chance to first hand judge to the truth of the above statements as well as make better purchasing decisions.

History:

Step 1: A.S. (adsoft68 on eBay) purchased the following item on eBay:

REPAIR KIT FOR SAMSUNG BN44-00192A BN44-00192B POWER SUPPLY NOT COMING UP (#111283684871)

Purchased item was shipped and delivered accordingly.

Step 2: We received the following message via eBay (all messages are quoted without change):

"I bought this item from you, I was surprised that inside I find just 3 capacitor.
I never recognize on your description that CM... was capacitor.
In electronic capacitor have other name Volts and microfarad.
I am sorry but I dont need it for repair my tv. In most common cases are mosfets. I already replace all capacitors (no more than 3$ (your kit 10$)) how can I do for give you back and have my moneies? I never use the capacitors
Regards
A"

Step 3: We responded with the following:

"Send it back to the address on the envelope and include your eBay user name inside."

Step 4: We received the following from A.S., apparently after having left us the above negative feedback accusing us in dishonesty:

"Understand, i am not stupid, dear friend, the shipment fee are more than the value of item.... i prefer to get it in to garbage... At least i lost 37$ but you had one negative feedback .... I also claim to ebay your not honest business in fact you sell your capacitor like repair kit..isnt correct my friend, for repair the powerboard you need also some mosfet....."

Coppell TV Repair's rebuttal and thoughts:


My guess is that A.S. believes that we just put together a few capacitors and are selling that as a repair kit for whatever made-up problem.

This is, unfortunately, not an impossible scenario. I know for a fact that some companies in the business do it, but I'll get to that in another post.

So no issue with the customer suspecting us. I do, however, have an issue with a bold unsupported statement that we do sell a fake repair kit and are dishonest in the face of the following easily verifiable facts:

First, the kit has sold 18 times before A.S. placed his order and received at least 7 reviews from other customers; one such review clearly stated the kit did not help, the others said they were happy with it.

Don't take my word for it, take your time and find the reviews in our eBay feedback history!
Second, to the point of this kit NOT helping real life problems, there's actually a PICTURE in the listing showing the bulged capacitors causing the described issue! How much more of a proof you want that what is being sold does solve an actual problem?
That picture was personally made by me and the kit was assembled and listed AFTER we fixed a few such boards for the symptoms we describe and the components we include.

Third, everything advertised in the listing is exactly what is being sold; nothing is misleading and nothing is dishonest. Do not take my word for it - open the listing and read:

"Kit contents: CM856, CM858, CM861 replacements. More may be added over time if we hear from customers who have other bad capacitors on the board. All components in the kit are with same or better quality compared to the OEM parts used on the board."

If you find our listing or responses dishonest PLEASE let me know why!

Further, A.S. seems to have an issue with the repair kit containing ONLY capacitors.

This is what we have seen to be bad and nothing else. This is what the kit contains.
It is not only possibly, it is very common for electrolytic capacitors to go bad rendering a board - not just power supply board - useless. There hundreds of companies and probably thousands of repair kits made ONLY of capacitors.
Do not take my word for it - check badcaps.com for a starter, then just google for "capacitors repair kit" and you will find tons and tons of different ones!
 
Which begs the question: what else should it have contained to make A.S. happy? A few MOSFETs? What if A.S. had a blown transformer? Or a few diodes? Or a blown fuse? What about the ICs on the board?
 
What would have A.S. or someone else said if they received a bag of parts most of which were not bad?

It's a rhetorical question the answer to which we still hear every now and then even though we try to make our repair kits dedicated to a single problem: a customer would come back asking credit for the part of the kit they did not need using.

Most important of all: 

Where is the problem here: in our representation or in customer's inability to make use of it and, related, in his unjustified expectations?

What do you think?

Am I really as rude as this eBay customer claims?

Today I am seem to be on a roll in the customer service department.

Just had a customer post the following on eBay:


   This company/person is rude.Will never do business with them again! RUDE RUDE
       EBR36954501 EBR39214401 EAX36953201 YSUS REPAIR KIT (#160503144701)
       Buyer: 123alexino ( 0 )

(The zero in the brackets, in case you wonder, is the number of positive responses this particular buyer has had from other vendors.)

Now, without much explanations I want to show you how this has happened and ask for your opinion on whether I am really as rude as this customer claims I am.

1) Customer buys our repair kit "EBR36954501 EBR39214401 EAX36953201 YSUS REPAIR KIT" as can be found on eBay under item number 160503144701.

2) We send the item and customer receives it.

3) Customer opens a case in eBay's problem resolution center stating the following (no changes in this or any other quote, ours or customer's):

"The case details:

The buyer says the item doesn't match the description.

The buyer paid on Sep 12, 2014.

The buyer can be contacted at "--- -371-0967" in order to resolve the problem.

The buyer chose "other" as the problem with the item

 

Additional information:

"I only received the small plaque not the board (green with all the other things on there) that's what I needed. When I search by that part number that's what comes up every where but that's not what I received."

 

The buyer requested:

A replacement item."

 

4) Since buyer received exactly what was ordered (and what was advertised) I answered the following:

 

"What you say you need is simply not what you ordered. 

 

I believe if you take a minute and make a deliberate effort to open the listing and read it the confusion will become evident. 

 

What you received is exactly what is advertised and very clearly described. You will probably want to return it back to get credit. But, for one last time, what you received is EXACTLY what is described."

 

 Now here is the time to quote what is advertised. I will not quote the whole listing, only the top; you can read the rest if you just open the listing itself and make deliberate effort to read it :-)

"Coppell TV Repair (www.coppelltvrepair.com) is offerring you the two essential components needed to repair LG sustain board EBR36954501 .

Those are the large IC voltage regulator (called IPM) and a fast acting 4A fuse which burns when the IPM fails.

(Note you are not getting the board on the large picture; it is put there just for an illustration of what this kit is intended for!)"

4) Customer gets back to me with the following statement followed by the negative feedback on eBay:

"Your response is rude and uncalled for. I opened and read the listing prier to me placing the order. And yes obviously I was confused as to what I thought I ordered. I am not a TV tech nor know enough about TV parts to have known that what I ordered was not what you CLEARLY displayed on the picture. My mistake. But a simple educational explanation would have been more ADEQUATE, PROFESSIONAL and APPRECIATED. As far as what I want to do next is to not do business with your company. You can take those $34.95 and go take some customer service classes. Because based on most, if not all of your replies to your customers, you desperately need them. My first and last time doing business with your company. But I'm sure it doesn't matter to you since your making money. "

Now, I will ask again and for the last time: Was I being rude to this customer?

And, whether yes or no, do you believe he or she has read the listing as they claim they did?

If you believe I was rude please tell me how and , perhaps just more importantly, refrain from doing business with me!

You were warned :-)

Customer experience and skills against cold facts

A customer sent us a pair of Samsung LJ92-01490A Y-Main and LJ92-01524A dual buffer board for diagnostic and service.

After checking both boards on the bench we found nothing wrong so we put them in the testing unit and they worked just fine.

We returned the money paid by the customer on eBay for the Y-Main repair service ($69.95 at the time; repair orders placed via eBay are paid in advance as opposed to after successful repair or diagnostic service as we do for boards submitted through our site, i.e. our direct customers; this case is a good illustration of why we do not take money upfront).

Subsequently we invoiced customer $37 total made of $20 diagnostic fee and $17 for return S&H; the usual amount for return S&H is $12 to $15, but in this case is more due to the long dual buffer board.

Customer took a few weeks to get back and eventually stared disputing first the amount on the basis of eBay advertising "free shipping" and later for the fact that the boards may not have been working.

I won't quote the full correspondence, only their latest message as it summarizes past exchanges very well. Here it is without any editions:

"the tv shop in Indiana pa------we sent you a y -sustain board and buffer board------the y sustain board has for a fact -----shorted output transistor----I wanted you to repair this board------your trying to tell me its not messed up-----your wrong===better look again----I paid 15 dollars to get it to you------now your telling me its going to cost 37 to get it back ---not fixed-------im upset about this----------ive been fixing tvs since 1973-----I know a blow up when I see it--------------we were looking for a good rebuilder for these-------we repair roughly 40 units a week."

In addition to the bad grammar and punctuation it features some bold claims (of us being wrong) as well as some really impressive arguments on their ability to analyze and troubleshoot boards.

Our answer to the letter is just this:

I am not writing this article to get back at the customer.

I am posting it here and will be sending others to this post as a reminder to be careful with the statements you make and to not use your past experience or even current experience or volume as an argument for convincing others they are wrong.

Try sticking to measurable, provable facts.

Thank you!

MPF7726L for Hitachi P50S601 and others now available from Coppell TV Repair

A local business had a fleet of 50'' Hitachi plasma TVs they wanted us to repair.

They were all P50S601 and most of them had the typical buffer board issues, which requires either the SDR-U FPF47R-SDR60795 or the SDR-D FPF47R-SDR60805 to be replaced.

Or both, if you want to do it the right way.



Anyways, few of the TVs, though, had bad power supply boards and that made us realize that those are hard to find and expensive.

Hitachi P50S601 uses power supply board MPF7726L.

A decent service manual for the TV and some additional ones for the power supply can be found at the Hitachi website.

Hats off to Hitachi for publishing that and, on a side note, the TV itself is also very very well built (my personal opinion).

We obtained a few power supply boards and added them to the list of boards we'd like to offer a repair to.

In time we most likely will, but at the time being we offer functional boards with trade-in option for the old core.

You can find MPF7726L for purchase with a trade-in option at www.coppelltvrepair.com .

One thing that was visibly bad on all power boards was the two 3300 uF / 100V filter capacitors, but they weren't the source of the boards' malfunctioning.

Those caps can stay puffed (and with lower capacitance) for some time before they start making trouble, but of course if you are so and so on fixing the board you may as well have them serviced...just do not start with them as chances are the problem is going to be elsewhere.

And they are expensive.

Web server and email problems on Monday September 8

Just a quick note informing all our customers that we have a server problems resulting in temporarily loss of web and email services.

We will be working to restore access throughout the day.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Hitachi ND60200-0049 / JP5491and ND60200-0050 / JP5492 blind repair done and offerred

A TV service center and regular customer of ours asked us if we can repair Hitachi ND60200-0049 / JP5491 SDR-U buffer board with burned IC.

They have found us through a mistake in our listing for ND6020-0047 where we had somehow typed 0049 instead of 0047 and Google has indexed it.

The pair of buffers SDR-U ND60200-0047 and SDR-D ND60200-0048 are indeed very similar to the ND60200-0049 and ND60200-0050 from an electrical and functional standpoint, but the mechanical differences make them totally incompatible.

As a rule of thumb we do not take repairs for boards that we can't test in the shop (how else we could claim we've fixed the board and ask to be paid for it?!), but the customer persisted and we considered taking the risk after first explaining it to the customer.

After all, the register ICs used by both boards are the same, the electrical wiring is the same and after having done well over 200 repairs on ND60200-0047 and ND60200-0048 with last problem do-not-even-remember-how-long-ago it seemed a somewhat acceptable risk.

Below are the pictures we've taken from the process of the repair along with a few notes; most or all of this information can probably be found on Internet; Hitachi's own website, like most other Japanese companies, is an excellent reference source.

There was one IC visually burned on the buffer board and unfortunately we've taken it off before we started making pictures, so you wouldn't be able to see it.

1) A picture of ND60200-0049 / JP5491 after taking the burned IC and cleaning around.
Determining the bad IC is usually as simple as inspecting them carefully and finding burn spots or holes with a naked eye, but there is also a better one: around each IC (on top of each as per this picture) there is a pair of brown resistors in parallel and an SMD capacitor connected to them in series. 99.9% of the time a burned IC would result in a shortage over that capacitor. For the IC being repaired this was C825 (see it up-close on the last picture)

 

2) An up-close picture of the pad for the IC. The picture is of awfully good quality showing the cleanup could have been better. For sake of business prosperity please imagine that if you send your board or are getting an already serviced board from us it would be better cleaned. Not that it would make any functional difference, but it would show style which we definitely possess, only forgot to take with us to work today.

3) Top-level picture of the IC already soldered and baked in place. Baking is needed to get rid of the flux/acid needed for soldering as well as for soldering the pad at the back of the IC to the board. The first is more important though as it can easily kill the IC after it heats up and the fluid starts moving around.

4) Close-up on the replaced IC. The original ICs on the board are 2A20282AFT as you can see on other pictures. 3294F is a fully functional equivalent and we have used both with success.
You can purchase 3294F at our site, but just as a quick reminder - we do not give warranty on components we sell.
Oh, as another quick reminder we do not give warranty on servicing boards that we can't test either. Luckily us we do not normally service boards we can't test...but if we do we'll make sure it's with big bold letters and please make an effort to read it!

5) The repaired ND60200-0049 / JP5491 buffer board after the protective silicone was applied.
I've heard some techs say they've never used protection after replacing a buffer IC and never had a problem after, but frankly I do not believe it.
And it is because  - sure enough - I tried it too.
It takes time, but it comes back to slap you, much like having too much you-know-what without using protection.
Actually that may depend on the board; I've done experiments with buffers with higher density and smaller distance between the legs and , sure enough, dust from air or elsewhere made trouble after some time collecting there and ultimately leading to short circuit by the popular formula High Voltage + Dirty Particles = Trouble.

6) Close-up of the IC after applying silicone. It was just applied and stays a bit like a glass now, but will become a little more matte over time, although never as gray as the original one used by Hitachi. We just do not have that one.
Also on this picture you can see the two parallel resistors for each of the ICs and the capacitors that's in series with them and which is to be tested for short to determine if the IC is burned.
Of course an IC can be bad and the capacitor may not have a shortage, but in our experience that maybe once or twice.

We are charging customer $80 for replacement of up to 3 ICs on the board; above 3 it becomes pretty darn expensive.

Should you need us to do the same for you do not hesitate to contact us.