Why Y-Main and buffer boards should NOT always be replaced together

In a daily language "experts" are usually people who do something more intense and, preferably, do it for living as opposed to as a hobby or on the side.

"Specialist" is a bit better word in that context and frankly I do not want to go down to semantics as much as I'd like to separate people who develop extensive expertise in a particular area versus all others.

Without being top notch I consider myself an expert in plasma , LCD and LED TV repair due to the fact that i do it a lot and , if anything, my experience and guessing would likely be better than that of an average customer even if I happen not to be the brightest of service engineers out there.

All that said, I am often reminded how bad an expert advice can be.

A quick illustration is a blog article I came upon today, which explains why is it better to replace a plasma sustain board along with buffer boards.

The contents of the article may change after my post, so I'll copy a snippet here without author's permission. I looked for place to comment under the article to tell them what I am telling you, but there was no option to leave comments , so I am instead doing it here.

"This is actually a fairly common problem amongst Plasma TV's. The Y-Sustain Board often times go kaput and you run into the problem of "no picture but still having sound". Everything else seems to work like volume control, changing the channels, and even changing the input from one to next. No problem, you think to yourself. Just replace the Y-Sustain Board and you should be good to go, right? Hold on there, cowboy. Before you go and do that, understand for a moment that Plasma TV's, unlike LCD TV's and LED TV's, is a different type of TV technology and thus, the way it operates is also different. If and when "a part goes out," it works in a domino effect. In other words, when one board goes out, it often times takes out another board with it. 

In a Samsung HPT5054, it uses this Y-Sustain and Buffer Board set: LJ92-01490A & LJ92-01491A & LJ92-1492A. Now, inside your TV, the direction of electrical current travels from left to right and when this set is inside your TV, from where you stand with the base of the "TV Stand opening" facing towards you, it would be from the "bottom up" that the electrical current travels. And in this particular TV model, usually the "short" comes from the lower buffer board (LJ92-01492A) that ends up blowing out the Y-Sustain Board. In other words, when the lower buffer board goes bad, it usually takes out the Y-Sustain Board along with it. And before you go jumping the gun and concluding that maybe it's prudent to replace the Y-Sustain Board and just the lower buffer board without also replacing the upper buffer board as well, this is actually not a good idea. Why? Because if the lower buffer board goes bad and takes out the Y-Sustain Board along with it, it is just a matter of time before the upper board goes bad. And then you run into the same problem except this time, it will be the upper buffer board blowing out the Y-Sustain Board. In this case, it's a lot like how your mechanic recommends that when you replace your tires or shocks and/or strut assemblies, that they should be replaced in pairs, rather than individually because of the same rationale: when one goes bad, it's highly probable that the other one is on its way out even though it appears to the naked eye that nothing seems to be wrong with it. And if nothing else, replacing the Y-Sustain Board together with the Buffer Boards will sufficiently eliminate the possibility that the short was coming from the upper buffer board thus minimizing the chances that you would end up blowing out one of the two working boards that you just bought. Ultimately, it saves you time and money to replace them together as a set rather than replacing two of the three only to have one of the old boards blow out on you and taking out one of the two perfectly good board you had just bought a week ago. And these Y-Sustain Boards don't come cheap nor are they easy to find."


While there is definitely some truth to the above, there is also a fair amount of errors and misconception resulting, at the end, in an incomplete at best, and more rightfully misleading conclusion and recommendations.

Here's why:

1) The article builds a case based on one example and fails to review everyday practice for other possibilities.

Samsung HP-T5054 does have a tendency of blowing a buffer board and taking down the Y-Main board as a result, that is correct.

However I can list tens of TVs - practically all Hitachi models I know and most of the LG based ones as well - where this is NOT the case.

HP PL5060N is a 50'' plasma from about the same time when Samsung HP-T5054 was made. It tends to blow the YSUS and the ZSUS boards however rarely ever the buffer boards are affected.
And the buffer boards are practically never the source of the YSUS failure.

So the case of having to replace all 3 boards together goes down the drain from the sake of cost efficiency and even pure technical requirements.

In case of the Hitachi plasma TVs from the same time frame, buffer boards tend to fail a lot - kind of like with Samsung - but they rarely ever affect the sustain board. 1 in 100 or something to that extent.

We highly recommend that people do not replace the sustain board simply because it is not needed.

In short: Y-Main and buffer boards SHOULD NOT always be replaced together.

2) The article talks about the lower buffer board failing on HP-T5054 and specifies it as LJ92-01492A.

That is flat our wrong.

We have about 200 lower buffers L92-01492A available here, result of customers replacing the set of buffers with new ones.

The lower buffer rarely ever fails!

What is the conclusion?

Well, whoever wrote that article is not really a TV service technician. No offense meant.

For my two cents whoever composed the article is fairly intelligent as it is well written (well interpreted from other sources is my exact opinion) and it improvises a bit over the original.

But it lacks what it needs most, which is first hand experience and proper application of logic specific to the issue.

I do not mean to offend the author or the other company in any way.

I want to make a point that one should not believe everything they get from what can be perceived as an expert in a certain area.

That includes our own advices, of course :-)

Take any way you want.

Issue with customer disputing repair service after granting no warranty repair

Below is an email correspondence I will post without edits other than removing emails for the sake of keeping privacy.

Reading it may not be very easy because of the way Outlook organizes email history, but I want to post it without changes and quickly.

To read it properly start from the bottom and work your way up to the top. That is how email history goes.

Most readers will not find it of interest, but hopefully PayPal will.

Ø Your terms and conditions imply that you do not want ME to fix the board, not others. 

I disagree with that.

And will quote you the requirements once again:

“We ask that the board arrives here in good physical condition and without traces of tampering. If someone (other than us, that is) has already attempted to service the board…”

Not only the statement does not talk about you, the customer, in fact it explicitly states someone (other than us, of course).

You may interpret the language any way you want, but that is the reason agreements are read not for what they imply, but for what they say.

And ours most definitely does not say anything about YOU not having worked on the board.

Ø What the prior technician did, and whether or not that constitutes “tampering” with it, is beyond my lay expertise. 

There is nothing wrong with that.

But it is within our expertise, which is the reason we contact you BEFORE we do anything else.

Ø If I have my oil changed at Jiffy Lube, do I need to inform the Toyota dealership that I might have tampered with my car, thus affecting its warranty?

You may want to check your agreement with Toyota about that – I am definitely not informed enough as to speak on their behalf.

But I am quite sure that there are places and services that will void original Toyota warranty.

Again it is up to you to know what they are and I am sure they are in the car’s service terms and conditions.

Ø With tax, I got charged over $100.  (No delivery charge cause he was local.)  When I called back to complain, his phone no longer worked.

Even if he would have answered the phone, I don’t think I would have paid him again to fix it, especially since there’s never any warranty on electronics.  I doubt he would have given me my money back.  AFTER I paid upfront, I noticed he was a “last word” argumentative type of technician.  Kinda arrogant too. 

Sorry to hear that, but I do not see how it is related to us.

We can’t be responsible for what others do and how they do it.

We may sympathize with people, but that doesn’t make our job any easier – it is still harder as we still have to go over what others have done before us.

Hence the requirements in the listing.

Ø Ultimately, I chose you because you claim no up-front fees BEFORE you TRY to fix anything.

Well I must say you are receiving a full benefit from doing that and frankly so are we.

We can’t usually fix a tampered board at the same cost at which we’d fix a factory one with original failure and we know from experience it’s much harder to convince someone in that AFTER you’ve already got paid….hence the no upfront payment policy.

We also wish people could help avoid situations by telling when they board was worked on previously, but as you can see they can’t always do that.

Part of business and we have to live with it as much as those customers have to.

> If need be, and so that I can avoid these types of disputes in the future, I’ll consider buying a whole new board or TV. 

Well I can tell you that if buying a brand new board was an option we would not be offering a repair service for it.

It simply isn’t J

Brand new TV you can always consider buying and we are not at all trying to convince you that you should not.

For the record we believe it has its pros and cons, but ultimately it depends on the personal decision and ability to stay with it.

Ø At least when something’s bought off the shelf, the store has to go out of business at or before the warranty expires in order to break all ties to what it has sold, all while continuing to purport that the customer’s always right since cash is King and therefore boss.

This is a personal opinion that does not affect us as a business entity and as such I can not give you an official position on it, but on a personal note I’ll point out that a) standard warranty for TVs these days is 12 months and the board in reference is 7 years old - you do the math; and b) not everyone is of the opinion that cash is King and customer is always right; some are of the opinion that presenting rules upfront and managing to contain business within those previously announced rules is more important than making more cash.

Best regards,

Bobby Kolev

Manager
Coppell TV Repair LLC
 

From: Hans Croteau
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:05 PM
To: Bobby Kolev
Subject: Re: Update on case CTSR1508044024 from Coppell TV Repair LLC

Bobby,

I’m not the one who fixed the board before I sent it to you.  When it broke again, I didn’t ask the same person to fix it precisely because of my concern that I might have to fix my TV every two months.  Your terms and conditions imply that you do not want ME to fix the board, not others.  What the prior technician did, and whether or not that constitutes “tampering” with it, is beyond my lay expertise.  If I have my oil changed at Jiffy Lube, do I need to inform the Toyota dealership that I might have tampered with my car, thus affecting its warranty?  With tax, I got charged over $100.  (No delivery charge cause he was local.)  When I called back to complain, his phone no longer worked.

Even if he would have answered the phone, I don’t think I would have paid him again to fix it, especially since there’s never any warranty on electronics.  I doubt he would have given me my money back.  AFTER I paid upfront, I noticed he was a “last word” argumentative type of technician.  Kinda arrogant too.  Ultimately, I chose you because you claim no up-front fees BEFORE you TRY to fix anything.  If need be, and so that I can avoid these types of disputes in the future, I’ll consider buying a whole new board or TV.  At least when something’s bought off the shelf, the store has to go out of business at or before the warranty expires in order to break all ties to what it has sold, all while continuing to purport that the customer’s always right since cash is King and therefore boss.

Hans

From: Bobby Kolev

Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 7:15 PM

To: Hans Croteau

Subject: RE: Update on case CTSR1508044024 from Coppell TV Repair LLC

Ø I simply sent you the board after it went out again, and after following your directions. 

Good. Directions is not the only thing we give though.
There are also conditions – much like in any other deal.
See listing or see below for a partial quote.

Ø It isn’t the first time this board gets fixed.  (In fact, I think there were at least two prior fixes, but the TV worked fine for at least a couple months.  I also bought the TV used, not new.) 

That is exactly what the below quoted condition addresses.

Ø I did notice a zap on the green round capacitor when I plugged it in according to your instructions on the internet. 

No big problems with that.

Ø Your internet site is evidence that you instruct your customers to determine if the failure is caused by the Y-Main boards, as you state this is a common problem with these 50 inchers. 

A very good evidence for a very good advice.

Nothing to do with the tampered board, though. I am sure we do not instruct customers to replace components, in fact I am sure we request the opposite.

Ø I fail to see how I could be in clear violation of your service terms.

Well here it is, straight from the listing:

“Board requirements

We ask that the board arrives here in good physical condition and without traces of tampering. If someone (other than us, that is) has already attempted to service the board then please contact us with a description/pictures and do not directly place an order. We reserve the right to refuse service to boards that have signs of repair attempts.”

Ø As I recall, you advertised some $75 to $80 to try to fix the board. 

That is a good, but not excellent recollection.

It would have been excellent if you had read the listing, including the above quoted section.
Without it you are just remembering the part that you’re interested in, but without the other half we’re not interested in the repair.

Ø I don’t recall if there was an extra charge or not for re-delivery. 

Not sure what are you referring to, but to the best of my own knowledge there is nothing about re-delivery either.

I am not even sure what a “re-delivery” is.

Ø So in essence, you’re asking me for $110 to repair and deliver it back to me, which is $25 to $30 dollars more.

No, in essence we say that if we proceed with the repair and if we are successful then you will end up paying more.

Assuming we will be successful equalizes my statement with yours.

Ø As I recall, you sell $100 boards with a DUD exchange of $50.  Whether you want to try to fix it, or whether you just prefer to keep it as the DUD and sell me an already repaired $100 board with a $10 delivery cost doesn’t really matter to me. 

I believe you have not read our sale/trade-in offer in its full either.

Please do so.

You will find that it contains the same clause which prevents customers from receiving full credit for returning boards that have been tampered with.

It’s there for a reason and that reason is not to make us money. We are VERY aware people do not like price changes.

I wish people were equally aware it doesn’t cost the same to repair an original board with a failure and one that has been tampered with.

If not that I wish people were at least aware of our requirements that are there in plain English.

Ø I’m willing to pay you the $110 to get a working board delivered to my home, irrespective of how that gets done.

All you had to say was “I will go with option 2.”

Will do.

Best regards,

Bobby Kolev

Manager
Coppell TV Repair LLC
 

From: Hans Croteau
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 8:30 PM
To: CoppellTVRepair
Subject: Re: Update on case CTSR1508044024 from Coppell TV Repair LLC

Dear Coppell TV,

I simply sent you the board after it went out again, and after following your directions.  It isn’t the first time this board gets fixed.  (In fact, I think there were at least two prior fixes, but the TV worked fine for at least a couple months.  I also bought the TV used, not new.)  I did notice a zap on the green round capacitor when I plugged it in according to your instructions on the internet.  Your internet site is evidence that you instruct your customers to determine if the failure is caused by the Y-Main boards, as you state this is a common problem with these 50 inchers.  I fail to see how I could be in clear violation of your service terms.

As I recall, you advertised some $75 to $80 to try to fix the board.  I don’t recall if there was an extra charge or not for re-delivery.  So in essence, you’re asking me for $110 to repair and deliver it back to me, which is $25 to $30 dollars more.  As I recall, you sell $100 boards with a DUD exchange of $50.  Whether you want to try to fix it, or whether you just prefer to keep it as the DUD and sell me an already repaired $100 board with a $10 delivery cost doesn’t really matter to me.  I’m willing to pay you the $110 to get a working board delivered to my home, irrespective of how that gets done.

Hans S. Croteau

From: Coppell TV Repair LLC

Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:06 AM

To: Hans Croteau 

Subject: Update on case CTSR1508044024 from Coppell TV Repair LLC

Dear Hans Croteau,
Just finished inspecting the board you sent us.

It has clear signs of a previous repair service attempt, which is in direct violation of our requirement in the listing.

We offer flat rate repair services addressing a number of problems we have already seen and developed know-how for addressing, allowing small room for occasional complications which tend to get less and less over time.

Human interventions cause complications and delays in 8 out of 10 times...sure enough we've seen enough of those to have a statistic about it too.

In those 8 out of 10 times the project ends up costing us money rather than generating profit.

Hence the condition in the listing.

Based on that and the condition of your board here are the options we offer:

1) You can get the board back for the sole cost of the return shipping charges ($14)

2) If we proceed with the repair and the board is bad and we succeed repairing it you will pay $110.00 including return S&H

3) If we proceed with the repair and we fail to fix the board you will have to pay $25 plus return S&H

Additional notes:
none

Let us know what would you like to do!